<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/"
	>

<channel>
	<title>Fiction Notes &#187; feedback</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.darcypattison.com/tag/feedback/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.darcypattison.com</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:18:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<language>en</language>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>Outlining First Draft Reveals Structural Flaws</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/outlining-first-draft-reveals-structural-flaws/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/outlining-first-draft-reveals-structural-flaws/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 13:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[narrative structure]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[outline]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[plot]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=3430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Use Outlines to Revise Fiction Organization of a nonfiction piece of writing is paramount. Ideas and/or should build upon each other is an inevitable progression that leads to understanding. For fiction, the outline is the plot structure, events unfolding in an inevitable progression that lead to entertainment. When you use a narrative structure for creative [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Foutlining-first-draft-reveals-structural-flaws%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Foutlining-first-draft-reveals-structural-flaws%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<h3>Use Outlines to Revise Fiction</h3>
<p>Organization of a<a href="http://paperlightning.com/outlines/"> nonfiction piece of writing </a>is paramount. Ideas and/or should build upon each other is an inevitable progression that leads to understanding. For fiction, the outline is the plot structure, events unfolding in an inevitable progression that lead to entertainment. When you use a<a href="http://wisdom.darcypattison.com"> narrative structure for creative nonfiction</a>, with the curious blend of information and entertainment, the structure is doubly important. Just as the purpose of fiction and nonfiction differ, so do our organization methods.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cultr/2317142561/"><img src="http://www.darcypattison.com/notes/wp-content/uploads//Outline1-300x207.jpg" alt="" title="Outline" width="300" height="207" class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-3431" /></a>Yet, I still find that outlining is an effective revision strategy for fiction. I don&#8217;t use it to plan fiction, but to revise. And maybe the word &#8220;outline&#8221; is wrong. Because what I do is record what I have already done. </p>
<p>The problem is the disconnect between what we intend&#8211;a fantastic story&#8211;and what we produce&#8211;a disappointing draft. What is in our heads is always better, and therefore, it is what we remember when we look at at draft. But it is not what is on the paper. We need some way of forcing ourselves to look, really look, at what is on the paper. Did you really make yourself crystal clear at all points? No, you did not. The connecting bits are still in your head, I guarantee it.</p>
<p>At this point, two things might help: <a href="http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/feedback-3-attitudes-that-help/">feedback from astute readers</a> or outlining, or careful observation of words on the page. Doesn&#8217;t matter to me which you use first, but you should use both methods. Today, I&#8217;m assuming that you&#8217;re going to do the outlining. </p>
<p>You&#8217;ll find<a href="http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/outlining-fiction"> many methods to outline a narrative structure</a>. To use outlining as a revision strategy for a novel, I like to print out a single-spaced copy and just read through. You must base this outline on what you wrote, not on what you thought you wrote. Read your story!</p>
<p>Most writers have their story divided into chapters, but you can work with scenes or any other natural division. Write one sentence about what happened in each chapter. One and only one. Outlines look at the top level of organization, not the fine details. If you find that you can&#8217;t describe a chapter in one sentence, then it&#8217;s probably not focused enough yet, it&#8217;s a muddy telling of the story. </p>
<p>Once you have the sentence outline written, you can look through:<br />
Inevitable progression: Is there an inevitable progression of some sort? Do things become increasingly difficult for your main character?</p>
<p>Main story v. subplot: Does the main story dominate the sentence outline? Do subplots integrate into the story, creating more tension and interest?</p>
<p>This is the place to make sweeping changes, move chapters, omit chapters, add chapters. This top-level look at your story can reveal structural problems for you to resolve in the next revision.</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/outlining-first-draft-reveals-structural-flaws/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Feedback: 3 Attitudes that Help</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/feedback-3-attitudes-that-help/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/feedback-3-attitudes-that-help/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beta reader]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[first reader]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revise]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=3210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;m working on a novel and have just gotten a couple rounds of feedback from friends. Here&#8217;s what I noticed. They didn&#8217;t give me the answer I wanted! Be Open. I wanted them to say that this version was perfect, ready to send out. What they said was: Are you sure this should be chapter [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Ffeedback-3-attitudes-that-help%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Ffeedback-3-attitudes-that-help%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<p>I&#8217;m working on a novel and have just gotten a couple rounds of feedback from friends. Here&#8217;s what I noticed.</p>
<h2>They didn&#8217;t give me the answer I wanted!</h2>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/drachmann/327122302/"><img src="http://www.darcypattison.com/notes/wp-content/uploads//Question-300x225.jpg" alt="" title="Question" width="300" height="225" class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-3211" /></a><strong>Be Open. </strong>I wanted them to say that this version was perfect, ready to send out. What they said was:<br />
Are you sure this should be chapter 2 and not chapter 3?<br />
Are you sure that you want to start the chapter this way?<br />
Are you sure that you want to end the chapter this way?<br />
If you do X, then later it will mean Y or Z. Are you sure you want that?</p>
<p>Notice: They are not telling me that I must change anything! They are merely giving me a professional opinion about what might need a second look.</p>
<p>Sigh. Good friends, aren&#8217;t they? They don&#8217;t let me get by with mediocre.</p>
<h2>They Let Me Ask Questions</h2>
<p><strong>Accept Ultimate Responsibility. </strong>I have no idea where it started, this idea that authors should sit quietly and &#8220;take criticism.&#8221; It&#8217;s ridiculous. At least, to me.</p>
<p>No, I&#8217;m not arguing and saying that YOU are wrong. Of course, you&#8217;re just giving me &#8220;your opinion.&#8221; Of course, I need to know what you, as the reader, were feeling and experiencing as you read.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s great. But what I ALSO need is to understand exactly what you mean when you say, &#8220;I didn&#8217;t like that part.&#8221; </p>
<p>I need to ask questions to clarify the feedback, or the feedback is pointless to me. Did you not like it because you&#8211;personally&#8211;hate dogs and would never voluntarily read about them? Or did you not like it because the pacing was off? Or was it a single word choice that would make a difference? </p>
<p>Did you pick up on something in the last chapter that leaves you expecting something here? If so, can I change that bit in the last chapter and make this work here? Or, do you really think I must change this bit here?</p>
<p>There are so many, many variables in writing fiction: everything builds on what was done before and the choice of WHERE to revise is open; everything builds on the interconnections between ideas and language and the choice of WHERE to revise is open.</p>
<p>How can I make a wise choice, if I don&#8217;t understand exactly&#8211;with a great deal of precision&#8211;where the problem lies?</p>
<p>Fortunately, my friends let me &#8220;argue.&#8221; I need that.</p>
<h2>The Ultimate Choices are Mine: I Appreciate the Help</h2>
<p><strong>Be Thankful.</strong> In the end, though, my friends also leave the choices with me, as it should be. This is my story and it&#8217;s my vision for the story that matters. They suggest, prod, try to veto, nudge and encourage. That&#8217;s all they can do. In the end, it&#8217;s me and the words on the page. But thanks friends, for those nudges. I need those to keep going!</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/feedback-3-attitudes-that-help/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>2</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Do you get MAD at Editors? I Do</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/do-you-get-mad-at-editors-i-do/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/do-you-get-mad-at-editors-i-do/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[editor]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[how to]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[letter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[publishing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[write]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=2788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have Your Pity Party: But Then Get to Work When you get the letter from an editor about a revision, what do you do? Frankly, I get mad. How dare that misguided editor diss my perfect mss?! Only 3 days. For novels, I give myself the luxury of three days of being mad before I [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Fdo-you-get-mad-at-editors-i-do%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Fdo-you-get-mad-at-editors-i-do%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<h2>Have Your Pity Party: But Then Get to Work</h2>
<p>When you get the letter from an editor about a revision, what do you do?</p>
<p>Frankly, I get mad. How dare that misguided editor <span id="more-2788"></span>diss my perfect mss?!<img src="http://www.darcypattison.com/notes/wp-content/uploads//pity-300x225.jpg" alt="http://www.flickr.com/photos/eatmeatnow/2113011729/" title="http://www.flickr.com/photos/eatmeatnow/2113011729/" width="300" height="225" class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-2789" /></p>
<p><strong>Only 3 days.</strong> For novels, I give myself the luxury of three days of being mad before I get down to work. For 3 days, I get to gripe to my journal, to my DH, to myself. NEVER gripe to anyone else, of course. NEVER jeopardize a great editorial relationship by expressing your frustrations to the public.</p>
<p><strong>Embrace the emotions&#8211;then move on.</strong> I think it&#8217;s important to let these emotions have their play and not deny them. Writing a novel is a bit of an ego trip anyway, don&#8217;t you think? I mean,who am I to think that I could tell a story that would hold an audience enthralled? Who am I to think that some world and some characters that I make up from my imagination&#8211;well, do you hear all the &#8220;I&#8221; and &#8220;my&#8221; in what I&#8217;m saying?</p>
<p>Writing a novel is an ego-trip. And when an editor gives &#8220;feedback,&#8221; my pride says that I don&#8217;t need their feedback and they are wrong anyway, because they just didn&#8217;t get it. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve expressed this frustration here, too: <a href="http://darcypattison.com/revision/psychology-of-revising-fear-humility-1/">I Don&#8217;t Want an Honest Critique</a></p>
<p><strong>REALLY read the letter.</strong> Of course, three days later,when I have a bit of distance,I REALLY read the letter and, of course, they are right and I wonder why I didn&#8217;t see it before.</p>
<p><strong>In the end, you must get over it! And get to work.</strong></p>
<h3>2 Common Revision Issues</h3>
<p><strong>Audience.</strong> I&#8217;m dealing with a couple revision letters right now. One is mostly a matter of audience. I&#8217;m working on a book for teachers about writing and the editor continually makes minor corrections that will make the material work better for teachers. Audience is everything in these revisions.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re writing a mystery, you must know your audience. Picturebook? What age level child are you writing for? In every type of writing, the audience will determine much of the revision.</p>
<p><strong>Clarity of Communication.</strong> A second project is more about fine-tuning the story, making the characters a bit sharper, providing a better ending and probably making the language sing a bit more. Here, it&#8217;s story, characters, story arc, and language. Either way, the editor&#8217;s goal is better communication.</p>
<p>I do take time to let my ego have it&#8217;s pity party; but then, I cut that short and get to work. How long do you allow for a pity party before you get down to work?</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/do-you-get-mad-at-editors-i-do/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>5</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Feedback on Entire Novel Makes Difference</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/feedback-on-entire-novel-makes-difference/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/feedback-on-entire-novel-makes-difference/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 11:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[chapter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[narrative arc]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revise]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=2677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whole mss critique or chapter at a time critique? I went to Idaho this weekend for a Novel Revision Retreat. Whole mss critique. One thing I like about the Novel Revision Retreat is that it is set up to get feedback on an entire novel. Many critique groups run on the idea that a person [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Ffeedback-on-entire-novel-makes-difference%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Ffeedback-on-entire-novel-makes-difference%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<h2>Whole mss critique or chapter at a time critique?</h2>
<p>I went to Idaho this weekend for a <a href="http://darcypattison.com/speaker.html">Novel Revision Retreat</a>. </p>
<p><strong>Whole mss critique.</strong> One thing I like about the Novel Revision Retreat is that it is set up to get feedback on an entire novel.<br />
<div id="attachment_2678" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 250px"><img src="http://www.darcypattison.com/notes/wp-content/uploads//mesafallsidaho.jpg" alt="Upper Mesa Falls, Henry&#039;s Fork, Snake River, Idaho. Near the location for our Idaho retreat." title="http://www.flickr.com/photos/tiarescott/33615066/" width="240" height="180" class="size-full wp-image-2678" /><p class="wp-caption-text">Upper Mesa Falls, Henry's Fork, Snake River, Idaho. Near the location for our Idaho retreat.</p></div><br />
Many critique groups run on the idea that a person will submit a chapter or a designated amount of pages on a regular schedule, perhaps once a week or once a month.  That works well, up to a point. Often, the time period in between critiques means that you’ve forgotten crucial details and must ask the author things like these:  did you already cover this, when, how well, how was it worded.</p>
<p>I understand why critique groups do this type of schedule and I’m not discouraging it. This is valuable feedback, especially for line editing.</p>
<p>However, a full novel critique is also essential. Here, you look not so much at how well a chapter looks but how the story plays out over many pages. This lets you look at narrative arc, emotional arc, pacing, gaps in the story, continuity issues and so much more.<br clear="all"></p>
<p><strong>Indepth Feedback.</strong>The second thing the Novel Revision Retreat does is give you in-depth feedback on your entire novel.<iframe src="http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?lt1=_blank&#038;bc1=000000&#038;IS2=1&#038;nou=1&#038;bg1=FFFFFF&#038;fc1=000000&#038;lc1=0000FF&#038;t=darpatsrevnot-20&#038;o=1&#038;p=8&#038;l=as1&#038;m=amazon&#038;f=ifr&#038;md=10FE9736YVPPT7A0FBG2&#038;asins=0979862108" style="width:120px;height:240px;" scrolling="no" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" frameborder="0"></iframe> We cover about 8 areas of writing a novel, everything from characterization and dialogue to pacing. Then, there’s a group session in which the group discusses each novel in turn for how well the novel performs on the current topic. In depth feedback is invaluable. The number of group sessions allows some trust to build up and for a certain honesty to evolve. Certainly, the writers don’t agree with everything said in a group, but at least they’ve heard three different opinions. </p>
<p>In-depth feedback on a whole novel – it’s the best thing about the Novel Revision Retreat. You can do the same thing by agreeing to critique a whole novel from each member once a group. Or maybe you need a special critique group just for novelists. I&#8217;ve been a member of a special novel critique group. We have only four members, and have agreed to critique 2 full novels from each member each year. In reality, we usually just do one from each a year. But even if it was 2/year, that&#8217;s only 6 novels I&#8217;ve agreed to critique. It&#8217;s a workable solution to the need for a whole manuscript critique.</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/feedback-on-entire-novel-makes-difference/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>2 Types of Feedback</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/2-types-of-feedback/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/2-types-of-feedback/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[book]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fiction]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[how to write]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revise]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=2336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Feedback on Story or Best Way to Tell Story? I&#8217;ve always considered the first draft of a novel as a time to get the story down on paper. The second draft is a time to consider the best way to tell that story. So, when I&#8217;m looking at feedback from a reader, a critique of [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2F2-types-of-feedback%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2F2-types-of-feedback%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<h2>Feedback on Story or Best Way to Tell Story?</h2>
<p>I&#8217;ve always considered the first draft of a novel as a time to get the story down on paper. The second draft is a time to consider the best way to tell that story.</p>
<p>So, when I&#8217;m looking at feedback from a reader, a critique of a draft, I&#8217;m considering this, too. Is the reader questioning the story, or are they referring to the best way to tell that story? My reaction depends on the answer to this.<span id="more-2336"></span></p>
<h3>Questions about the Story</h3>
<p><img src="http://www.darcypattison.com/notes/wp-content/uploads//story.jpg" alt="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dhammza/124848972/" title="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dhammza/124848972/" width="240" height="160" class="alignleft size-full wp-image-2337" />Some feedback questions the basics of my story.<br />
Not believable: Sometimes a reader simply doesn&#8217;t believe the premise of the story, it&#8217;s too far-fetched, or doesn&#8217;t ring true in some way. For example, I&#8217;m dealing with foster children in my story and the mechanics of placing children in foster care must be believable. </p>
<p>(Of course, the hardest part here is that readers&#8217; experiences differ: those who are foster parents and good ones, tend to gloss over difficulties; social workers who work with the hardest populations and have thus consistently seen the worst, tend to gloss over the good experiences. Partly, this is a balancing act, but it must be addressed.)</p>
<p>Logic: Sometimes, the story logic is flawed. This may be deep enough of a flaw that it makes me reconsider major sections of the story; or it may be minor enough to fall into the category of how to tell the story. If it&#8217;s deep enough, it forces me to replot.</p>
<h3>Questions about How to Tell this Story to Emotionally Affect the Reader</h3>
<p>Here is where I listen the closest to a reader.<br />
Openings. The opening either grabbed the reader or it didn&#8217;t.<br />
Endings. The ending was either satisfying to this reader or not.<br />
Characters. The reader either liked or sympathized with the character or not.<br />
Events. Either moved or bored the reader.</p>
<p>In other words, I can&#8217;t argue with the reader here. It&#8217;s their own personal reaction. So, I listen carefully. But I also try to cast a fairly wide net of readers to get several opinions, because &#8211; as editors constantly remind us &#8211; there is a great variety of opinions out there.</p>
<p>But believe me, I&#8217;m very, very, very concerned about how to tell a story that deeply moves you. Your reaction is everything.</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/2-types-of-feedback/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>5 Reactions to Novel Feedback</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/5-reactions-to-novel-feedback/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/5-reactions-to-novel-feedback/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[book]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[change]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[clarity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fiction]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[how to write]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[reader]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rearrange]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revise]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=2334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yep. You gotta get feedback on your novel and you gotta act on it. On everything? Yep. But what if. . . Yes! Oh! No? Uh-oh! Huh? Okay. Here are five reactions I&#8217;ve had to recent feedback: Yes! Oh! No? Uh-oh! Huh? Yes! It&#8217;s great when feedback confirms what you were already thinking needed work. [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2F5-reactions-to-novel-feedback%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2F5-reactions-to-novel-feedback%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<p>Yep. You gotta get feedback on your novel and you gotta act on it. On everything? Yep. But what if. . .</p>
<h2>Yes! Oh! No? Uh-oh! Huh?</h2>
<p>Okay. Here are five reactions I&#8217;ve had to recent feedback: Yes! Oh! No? Uh-oh! Huh?</p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Yes! </strong>It&#8217;s great when <span id="more-2334"></span>feedback confirms what you were already thinking needed work. You knew this area was weak, and sure enough, the reader confirmed it. These changes or revisions to your novel are made easier by this confirmation.</li>
<p><img src="http://www.darcypattison.com/notes/wp-content/uploads//Uhoh.jpg" alt="http://www.flickr.com/photos/donshall/3877269963/" title="http://www.flickr.com/photos/donshall/3877269963/" width="180" height="240" class="alignleft size-full wp-image-2335" />
<li><strong>Oh!</strong> These are unexpected, new ideas for ways to solve a problem in a particular way. I love it when the reader gets what I&#8217;m doing in this novel and suggests a perfect revision. These are often ideas about adding, omitting, changing or rearranging. </p>
<p>For example, one comment recently was to take a line from page 76 and use it as the opening line. I&#8217;m still not sure it will work, but it&#8217;s shaken me out of my rut on that first line and now I&#8217;m more likely to find the right place to start.</li>
<li><strong>No? Now what?</strong> The hardest comments are those which contradict what I set out to do. Did the reader just not understand the story, or am I not understanding my story? It&#8217;s confusing for a while and hard to decide because, in the end, I must trust my own judgment &#8211; something every novel faces, but something that takes courage. Fortunately, I&#8217;m not getting lots of these, but even one throws me for a loop for a while.</li>
<li><strong>Uh-Oh!</strong> I hate it when I know what I meant, but the reader clearly didn&#8217;t get it when they read this draft of the novel. That means the story is still stuck in my head and it&#8217;s not on paper yet. Clarity. That&#8217;s the goal when facing these type comments. Not changing my ideas, or abandoning them. Just clarifying them, so the reader gets it. THEN, we&#8217;ll see if the next reader of the next draft has another reaction. But first, I want my idea to be clear to the reader before I abandon or modify it.</li>
<li><strong>Huh?</strong> I love these wild card comments. My first response is, where did THAT come from? Sometimes, these odd-ball comments on the novel can spark a fresher, more unusual, more interesting way of showing the story. It&#8217;s a revision I would never have thought of but &#8211; WOW! &#8211; what a great idea.</li>
</ul>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/5-reactions-to-novel-feedback/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Test Submissions</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/marketing/test-submissions/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/marketing/test-submissions/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[book marketing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[contract]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique group]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Darcy Pattison]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[how to write]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[literary agent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel submission]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revise]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[write a novel]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=1860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Submit, Then Revise At our spring conference, Jen Rofe, literary agent at Andrea Brown Literary spoke about sending out manuscripts. The one thing that surprised me was her attitude toward submission and revision. Rofe said she usually sends out a mss to about five editors. Then, depending on the feedback, she&#8217;ll often ask the writer [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Fmarketing%2Ftest-submissions%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Fmarketing%2Ftest-submissions%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<h2>Submit, Then Revise</h2>
<p>At our spring conference, Jen Rofe, literary agent at <a href="http://www.andreabrownlit.com/">Andrea Brown Literary</a> spoke about sending out manuscripts. </p>
<p>The one thing that surprised me was her attitude toward submission and revision. Rofe said she usually sends out a mss to about five editors. Then, depending on the feedback, she&#8217;ll often ask the writer to revise. She considers those &#8220;test submissions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Re-reading some of <em>Writing the Breakout Novel Workbook</em> by Donald Maass, I noticed the same thing. He said that Parnall Hall had to revise a mystery: </p>
<blockquote><p>A test round of submissions suggested that the points of view in A Clue for the Puzzle Lady were improperly weighted. Hall revised, and the second round hit the jackpot. p. 47 </p></blockquote>
<p>Interesting. If literary agents regularly use this approach of test submissions then revision, it&#8217;s something to think about.  <div id="attachment_1861" class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 250px"><a href="http://www.darcypattison.com/notes/wp-content/uploads/critical-eye.jpg"><img src="http://www.darcypattison.com/notes/wp-content/uploads/critical-eye.jpg" alt="THE CRITICAL EYE" title="critical-eye" width="240" height="161" class="size-full wp-image-1861" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">THE CRITICAL EYE</p></div></p>
<p>Next time you send out your children&#8217;s picture book manuscript or your novel manuscript, target five publishers. If you get feedback, especially if it&#8217;s consistent in what it says, then revise before you send to five other editors.</p>
<h4>Individual Critiques v. Group Critique</h4>
<p>What if you don&#8217;t get personal letters from editors? I recently sent a picture book manuscript to about five different people and, without consultation with each other, four of the five mentioned a few items that needed work. Now, personally, I loved the fifth person&#8217;s comments! If she was an acquiring editor and bought the mss as is, no problem. But she&#8217;s not.</p>
<p>So, I have an overwhelmingly consistent opinion that something needs work.</p>
<p>Usually, I send to a critique group and everyone there sees the mss and it&#8217;s a group discussion. That always feels like a single opinion to me; here, I sent it privately and it&#8217;s five opinions. If those five had been in a group, the discussion may have progressed the same, but I would not be as likely to pay attention.</p>
<p>Will I always ask for separate critiques now? No. The group discussions are valuable. But I&#8217;m definitely adding this variation to my arsenal of revision strategies.</p>
<p>And yes, I&#8217;m working on revising the picture book manuscript, trying to do at least some of what these individuals asked for, while secretly hoping to find an editor who agreed with the other person!</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/marketing/test-submissions/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>2</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Listen</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/listen/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/listen/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[communication]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[how to write a book]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revise]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[write a novel]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=1641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Learn to Listen to Critiquers Listening to critiques is hard! I have to remind myself that writing is communication, with a writer and a reader. When I get feedback, what I&#8217;m really doing is checking to see if I communicated what I wanted to. Well, no. I didn&#8217;t. I have two choices: Ignore the feedback. [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Flisten%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Flisten%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<h2>Learn to Listen to Critiquers</h2>
<p>Listening to critiques is hard!</p>
<p>I have to remind myself that writing is communication, with a writer and a reader. When I get feedback, what I&#8217;m really doing is checking to see if I communicated what I wanted to. Well, no. I didn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I have two choices:</p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Ignore the feedback.</strong> This guarantees that a chunk of readers will not understand my story, my essay, my attempt at communicating.</li>
<li><strong>Clarify through revision. </strong>Revision is the process of clarifying the communication.</li>
</ul>
<p>For fiction, this means partly that the reader has an internalized concept of story and your story must fit that concept, at least to some degree. You can break expectations, of course, and often the best novelists do, but the novel must fit some of these conventions, or communication breaks down.</p>
<p><strong>Plot holes. </strong>The reader&#8217;s reasoning process say, uh-oh, that wouldn&#8217;t have happened that way. Or, you can&#8217;t have that happen at the same time as this other event. Whatever &#8211; the story violates the reader&#8217;s sense of what is possible.</p>
<p><strong>Character holes. </strong>The reader just doesn&#8217;t believe this is a person, but just a collection of characteristics. Successful novels put together characteristics, emotions, actions, reactions in such a way that the reader believes.</p>
<p>Feel free to disagree with any and every piece of feedback you get. But only after you&#8217;ve listened, and thought, and thought and tried to make sure your communication is reaching your readers.</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/listen/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Critique Groups</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/critique-groups/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/critique-groups/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique group]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Darcy Pattison]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[how to write]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[local]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[online]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revise]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[write a book]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcypattison.com/?p=1230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve written before about Different Styles of Critiques and When to Ask for a Critique. Today focuses on the different types of critique groups. Different Critique Groups Meet Different Needs I&#8217;m heading off today to my local critique groups and I realized I have several different types of critique groups, each one filling a different [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Fcritique-groups%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Fcritique-groups%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<p>I&#8217;ve written before about <a href="http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/revision-understanding-critiques/">Different Styles of Critiques</a> and <a href="http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/when-to-ask-for-a-critiquewhen-to-ask-for-a-critique/">When to Ask for a Critique</a>. Today focuses on the different types of critique groups.</p>
<h1>Different Critique Groups Meet Different Needs</h1>
<p>I&#8217;m heading off today to my local critique groups and I realized I have several different types of critique groups, each one filling a different need.</p>
<p><strong>Critique Ideas. </strong> Two years ago, I started <a href="http://www.darcypattison.com/picture-books/friday-ideas-2008/">the Friday Ideas group</a> with the idea that we would only critique ideas. Too many of my manuscripts were rejected with this comment: &#8220;The writing is strong, but this just doesn&#8217;t stand out in today&#8217;s crowded market.&#8221;  I wanted to get rid of that comment permanently, so we now critique ideas.  Is this strong enough to compete? Is is original, or can I name something similar?  </p>
<p><strong>Critique in Person.</strong>  Local groups allow me to get feedback in person. Often, these meetings are just sharing good news or bad news and are an encouragement group as much as anything.  Yes, I need encouragement!  Often!  (<em>You can leave me an encouraging comment below if you want!  I need them a lot lately!  Well, all the time, really</em>.)</p>
<p>We also take in new people all the time, give them a taste of how we struggle to get things right and see a steady stream of people decide they don&#8217;t want to do the work needed to succeed. But there are a few who stick and they are a joy.</p>
<p><strong>Critique Novels.</strong> Online, I have a critique group that only looks at completed novels. Writing one chapter is easy; writing a complete novel is much more complex and difficult. So, we only critique completed manuscripts.  It&#8217;s a small group and we have agreed to read two novels from each participant, so a total of six novels per year. Very doable. It&#8217;s important to keep this group small.</p>
<p><strong>Critique Groups for a Special Purpose.</strong> In my <a href="http://www.darcypattison.com/speaking/">Novel Revision Retreats</a>, I create special groups of four and within the group the writers exchange novels to be read before the retreat starts. This is a group created for a special event and often they dissolve after the retreat; but just as often, something sparks among the writers and they continue in some on-line fashion.  </p>
<p>As I talk to people around the industry, I know there are many other types of critique groups formed, each filling a certain need for a certain season.  Don&#8217;t be afraid to create one designed especially for you and your work!</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/critique-groups/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>3</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>When to Ask for a Critique</title>
		<link>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/when-to-ask-for-a-critique/</link>
		<comments>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/when-to-ask-for-a-critique/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 15:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Darcy Pattison</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[novel revision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[book]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[critique group]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Darcy Pattison]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feedback]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[how to write]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[novel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[picture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revise]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[write a book]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://darcypattison.com/revision/when-to-ask-for-a-critique/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[At what point do you let others read a draft? First Drafts are $#@# It&#8217;s an open secret that first drafts are awful and the best thing about a first draft is that it is finished. So, do you prefer that outside readers read this draft or wait for a more polished draft? Do you [...]<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px;">
			<a href="http://api.tweetmeme.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Fwhen-to-ask-for-a-critique%2F"><br />
				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darcypattison.com%2Frevision%2Fwhen-to-ask-for-a-critique%2F&amp;style=normal&amp;b=2" height="61" width="50" /><br />
			</a>
		</div>
<p>At what point do you let others read a draft?</p>
<h1> First Drafts are $#@#</h1>
<p>It&#8217;s an open secret that first drafts are awful and the best thing about a first draft is that it is finished.  So, do you prefer that outside readers read this draft or wait for a more polished draft? Do you wait for the second or third draft?</p>
<p>Critiques can be helpful at all stages, if you know what your needs are and what you&#8217;d like your critiquer to look for. Of course, there are <a href="http://darcypattison.com/revision/revision-understanding-critiques/">all kinds of critiquers</a> and you should choose the right one, depending on your needs.  Here are some things to consider as you decide at what stage to ask for a critique:</p>
<ul>
<li>Do you want feedback on the concept?  The characters?  The plot?</li>
<li>Do you just want affirmation? (Hey, this is OK!  Just make sure you get critiques that help you revise, too!) </li>
<li>Do you have ideas for revision already, or are you totally stuck?  You know it needs something, but you don&#8217;t know what?</li>
<li>Do you want an overall, big-picture critique?</li>
<li>Do you have weaknesses &#8212; spelling or grammar &#8212; and you know you need someone to check this?</li>
<li>Do you want a chapter or scene read?  Or do you need someone with the time and commitment to read an entire novel?</li>
</ul>
<p>You&#8217;ll get a better critique is you have some idea of what you need at this point so you can get on with the needed revisions.</p>
<p><div id="goodreadsGiveawayWidget20260"><!-- Show static html as a placeholder in case js is not enabled -->

<div class="goodreadsGiveawayWidget" style="max-width: 350px; margin: 10px auto; padding: 10px 15px; border: 2px solid #EBE8D5; border-radius: 10px;">
  <style>
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget { color: #555; font-family: georgia, serif; font-weight: normal; text-align: left; font-size: 14px;
      font-style: normal; background: white; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget img { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0 !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a { padding: 0 !important; margin: 0; color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:visted { color: #660; text-decoration: none; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget a:hover { color: #660; text-decoration: underline !important; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidget p { margin: 0 0 .5em !important; padding: 0; }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink { display: block; width: 150px; margin: 10px auto 0 !important; padding: 0px 5px !important; 
      text-align: center; line-height: 1.8em; color: #222; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold;
      border: 1px solid #6A6454; -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; font-family:arial,verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;
      background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; background-color:#BBB596;
      outline: 0; white-space: nowrap;
    }
    .goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink:hover { background-image:url(http://goodreads.com/images/layout/gr_button4_hover.gif);
      color: black; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;
    }
  </style>
  <h2 style="margin: 0 0 10px !important; padding: 0 !important; font-style: italic; font-size: 20px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; text-align: center; color: #555;">
    <a href="http://www.goodreads.com" target="_new">Goodreads</a> Book Giveaway
  </h2>

  
    
    <div style="float: left;">
      
        <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722"><img alt="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" src="http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1328123478l/13448722.jpg" title="Wisdom, the Midway Albatross by Darcy Pattison" width="100" /></a>
      
    </div>
    
    <div style="margin: 0 0 0 110px !important; padding: 0 0 0 0 !important;">
      <h3 style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-size: 16px; line-height: 20px; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;">
        
          <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13448722">Wisdom, the Midway Albatross</a>
        
      </h3>
      <h4 style="margin: 0 0 10px; padding: 0; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;">
        
          by <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104277" style="text-decoration: none;">Darcy Pattison</a>
        
      </h4>
      
      <div class="giveaway_details">
        
          <p>
            Giveaway ends March 11, 2012.
          </p>
          <p>
            See the <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/show/20260" style="text-decoration: none;">giveaway details</a>
            at Goodreads.
          </p>
        
      </div>
    </div>
    <div style="clear: both;"></div>
    
    
      <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/enter_choose_address/20260" class="goodreadsGiveawayWidgetEnterLink">Enter to win</a>
    
    
  </div>
</div><script src="http://www.goodreads.com/giveaway/widget/20260" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script></p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.darcypattison.com/revision/when-to-ask-for-a-critique/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
	</channel>
</rss>

